[Closed] AIP 003: Reward Locking Mechanism

Governance Proposals
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#41

The idea of a CAP no matter if total value locked (TVL) or individual is doing exactly the opposite of what it is supposed to archive.

As you correctly stated yourself: You can create an infinite amount of wallets and there is nothing that stops you doing this not even gas costs. As long as it is profitable for you as a “normie” to stake in a pool it is profitable for a whale for each of his 100 or more wallets he uses to bypass the individual cap.

So whales can a) create an infinite amount of wallets to bypass individual caps and b) automate the splitting and staking process to be faster than any human being that is manually operating their wallets, effectively filling up the pool faster than anyone else can.

So both individual and TVL caps are actually beneficial to whales and detrimental to normal users and thus should be avoided at all together. As long as there is no KYC there is NO protection against whales whatsoever. Everyone who says different is either ignorant of the facts or lying.

3 Likes
#42

I definitely support this proposal. My thoughts on this point:

  1. Any serious Defi project needs to build a strong community aimed at long-term growth and not an “instant cashouts”. It is even more important at the early stage for Delphi when token doesn’t have a lot of utility. We need to grow the project first, shift it to the more mature stage, and help to capture value to the token through product successful operation.
  2. We have to change the project audience from short-term farmers to long-term supporters sooner or later. It is a chance to start this process now.
  3. Crazy farmers don’t understand one simple thing. At the early stage supporters participate in token distribution, not “profit distribution”. There are NO profits now - the project is on the early stage, starting to generate value for the community. So, people have to be able to get a share of the pie (an ADEL/AKRO tokens), but not sell them (derive any cash from that). All LPs are de-facto project co-owners earning and holding ADEL.
  4. Governance tokens are used for governance. Surprise! It means that you earn them, first of all, to vote and develop this project by means of the efficient management decisions. Then use them! The lock-up doesn’t affect that.

If the community is rational a bit, they will approve this proposal.

3 Likes
#43

i have not tried unstaking, so maybe i am wrong about this. But is their anything stopping me from just unstaking and then selling the tokens right now? Because if there is nothing stopping me then i can just unstake and sell my tokens whenever i want, putting them back into circulation, in that idea the staking pool is just a place i have stored my tokens for the time being instead of my wallet. While some kind of locking mechanism would prevent me from doing so.

#44

I am with DeFiDunk on this. I am in favor or time locking stake and rewards, these tokens came out prematurely in my openion, should have build out the platform first,now these are causeing headache,but since they are here, lock them in so they dont circulate, and focus on the platform.everyone wants more rewards,that can be the topic of another day, right now there arent many active products to generate income. the devs are spending to much time on these tokens. taking them out of circulation will aleviate alot of the headache. Im fortunate that I secured my spot in line when staking first went live, and not looking to give up my spot for short term gains.

2 Likes
#45

Hi Daryl! Their default option will be whatever has been voted in.
The dev team has already enabled direct claiming by users - this will be rolled out shortly.

#46

I am a but late to the discussion but the way Kyber handles it might also be worth looking into. If you unstake during an epoch you do not receive any rewards for that epoch. However you are always free to unstake. Its a soft incentive to keep your tokens locked.

#47

Hey guys, posting an update here following all the discussion:

Based on overall positive feedback so far we have started working on the implementation for vested rewards. Let me clarify another time how it will work in general (as I see some misconceptions):

  1. Vesting is only for AKRO & ADEL rewards - all other farmed tokens and yield a free to claim any time.
  2. It is not connected to lock-ups on staking or any other pool - you are free to withdraw your deposit any time still, and claim your rewards when vesting is over.
  3. For those who do not know what vesting is - it is gradual unlock of assets over time. It does not mean that they will be hard-locked for a year - it means that they will unlock gradually over the year. It does incentivize long-term users, not free short-term riders.
  4. Another clarification - vesting is enforced upon reward accrual. That means that current epoch rewards will unlock fully in a year, next epoch - in a year & week etc etc

As to the timeframes, let me put considerations here:

The timeframe that we choose will actually influence the gas price the user pays for claiming.
The shorter the timeframes (daily, weekly) - the more gas needed to actually calculate everything on the contracts, the bigger gas fees to withdraw.
A lot of users might be happy at first with weekly unlocks but will be angry right after they actually try to withdraw for the first time, as usually happens with high gas fees.

Call to action:

Let’s vote another time on the timeframes:

  • 12 months vesting with weekly cliffs (rewards accrued for epoch unlock gradually each week over the year)
  • 12 months vesting with monthly cliffs (rewards accrued for epoch unlock gradually each month over the year)
  • 12 months vesting with quarterly cliffs (rewards accrued for epoch unlock gradually each quarter over the year)

0 voters

Voting will be open for a day - and results will go to the final update published on Wednesday with details over the exact mechanics (for those interested).

P.S. Happy to see people discussing & contributing :heart:

1 Like
#48

I voted for weekly cliffs. However, we should have daily cliffs so people can see gradual release of rewards. This is to avoid the “wen rewards wen rewards” flooded all over places. People then make their own decision to claim it at will.

Daily releases of ADEL/AKRO if implemented will be similar to vested CRV.

3 Likes
#49

Does this mean for 12 months everything is locked and then each week after 12 months the weekly unlock occurs?

#50

Weekly cliffs would be good as it would avoid short burst of sell cycles that will happen in monthly and even more in quarterly reward unlocking.
In case of weekly unlock, different psychologies will come into play, some people will only claim rewards after 2-3 weeks because of high gas fee. Some people might be ready to pay even higher gas fee while claiming if the token price is high.
These different psychologies will maintain a gradual release of token in market, just as @CornNoob said and will protect the token from sudden price movements.

3 Likes
#51

This means that your rewards are released weekly during a period of 12 months from when you took the action that gets the rewards. So if you stake ADEL today, you get your first reward for that stake in 1 week.

#52

Screenshot_20200922-101248
Screenshot_20200922-1012481440×3168 907 KB

im not so sure on that. maybe its the barrier of the language but i understood it that way, that you get them after 1 year and the soft-lock means you can withdraw your staking stack, but not the rewards.
so if im staking 5 months i will get the first rewards in 1 year from now and the last in 1 year and 5 months but i could withdraw the rewards weekly (delayed by 1 year).

i see 2 problems with that (only if i understood it right!):

  1. its a very long time with no incentive (for now with the informations we have). it is lowering the sell-pressure (that is good) but a shorter vesting would have done the same (like 3 month or even 1 vesting/1 week cliff) -> an option for short term without incentive and a long with incentive could benefit multiple strategies.
  2. whats with the compound of restaking? if i cant access the rewards there should (its a must in my eyes) be the automatic restaking/compounding of that tokens. if thats not the case this whole approach is only taking instead of giving.

a statement from the team would be really great (maybe im just wrong).

#53

not sure if it helps…

12 months vesting with weekly cliffs means:

  1. Day 0: I stake my AKRO \ ADEL

  2. Day 0 + 1 week: I get 1/52 of my rewards

  3. Day 0 + 2 weeks: I get 1/52 of my rewards
    …

  4. Day 0 + 52 weeks: I get 1/52 of my rewards
    The END.

12 months lock means:

  1. Day 0: I stake my AKRO \ ADEL
  2. Day 0 + 12 month: I get 100% of my rewards
    The END.

3 months lock + 12 months vesting with weekly cliffs means:

  1. Day 0: I stake my AKRO \ ADEL
  2. Day 0 + 3 month: I get 1/52 of my rewards
  3. Day 0 + 3 month + 1 week: I get 1/52 of my rewards
  4. Day 0 + 3 month + 2 week: I get 1/52 of my rewards
    …
  5. Day 0 + 3 month + 52 week: I get 1/52 of my rewards
    The END.
2 Likes
#54

What @ad13 replied below/above is the normal understanding, as far as I know :slight_smile: @Sidzuka does appear to have explained something else in your screenshot, but the wording in this poll maps to the first option ad13 presented above (imo).

#55

I disagree. When you release rewards every day, you will have participants constantly asking about their daily rewards. I think monthly is ideal because it will attract a moreLong term & level-headed investor.

#56

@Manuel @T_Crown no, it means that rewards are released gradually over the year, like @ad13 example.

As to restaking - I’m 95% sure it will be restaking of what is already unlocked, otherwise it will just compound to oblivion with rewards accruing on your stake & locked tokens too

#57

thanks for clarification to all of you

#58

Closing the topic - update here https://medium.com/akropolis/delphi-general-update-3-of-n-september-23-7da64fa3cec5

#59